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Editor | On 01, Jan 2010
Message: 1833Posted by: Hemant Apastamb
Posted on: Wednesday, 16th June 2010
Hi All,
Greetings of the day !
I am working in an MNC in India as Manager – Business Excellece
I wish to do “Train the Trainer” course of 'TRIZ” for benefit of our organization.
Can anyone suggest me, who conducts such kind of courses ?
How i can get myself certified as 'TRIZ' trainer ?
We do use this methodology in our company to a small extent but i wish to have official certificate to conduct the TRIZ program for our company.
It will be of great help to me if someone guide me in this regard.
Hemant Apastamb
Message: 1837
Posted by: Nikolai Khomenko
Posted on: Sunday, 20th June 2010
Teaching to TRIZ Altshuller often compare with teaching to fly in the school of pilots. Instructor should be a good pilot before start to teach new pilots. Same in TRIZ before start training for trainers those who would like to be a trainers must learn at least how to apply TRIZ based tools for solving problems. It can be better if they will learn TRIZ as a theory to create tools for solving non typical problems.
If you use TRIZ based tools for real life problem solving fluently enough then I can recommend you some people and places where you can get education on how teach TRIZ efficiently and effectively. Training the trainers is a kind of meta-course for TRIZ practitioners…. It is a good idea if they have some experience in teaching others . You can contact me directly in http://www.linkedin.com and we can discuss all your questions and needs. There are few good places to get not only paper certificate but real knowledge and skills as well. Most of them are still not so well known in TIZ community. One of the most known is Boris Zlotin and Alla Zusma. Less known in the world TRIZ Master certified by G.Altshuller – Alexnader Narbut. Some other taught people to TRIZ and then those people buy certificates somewhere. For Instance in MATRIZ. This has happen with many dozens of my students at Samsung. First they learn how to solve problems from me and my partners and then they were first group of people in South Korea for whom Samsung bought certificates from MATRIZ. Good level of Knowledge and skills can be delivered by Hongyul Yoon from South Korea. In Italy you can ask Gaetano Cascini (former president of ETRIA). From him I guess you can get certificate of his University (University of Milano). Good level of Initial levels you can get in India from Shree Phadnis. Everything depend on what you need Knowledge and skills or papers ands certificate. It is difficult to mention all good TRIZ teachers here. There is a problem here: Today this is difficult to get both in one place. Some people spend most of time to promote their certification some other prefer to spend their time to teach well other people they neglect self advertizing. They are good researchers, practitioners and teachers but have not so good skills in self advertizing. It will take time for them to get recognition. Why? For Instance at INSA Strasbourg we had size of group not more then 12 persons (average was 7). This helps to provide enough attention to all students who motivated to get knowledge and skills for practical work. They recommend us to their friends, relatives and partners.
About recognition of certificate is another headache. For Instance Certificate of MATRIZ are recognized by some managers of a few companies in Korea for Instance. But several years ago MATRIZ certification were refused by many companies in France when MATRIZ has proposed them their certification. Another example: Certificates (Diplomas) of INSA Strasbourg are recognized around the world because of their course was accredited by Conference Des Grand Ecoles – respectable International association of famous Universities. INSA Strasbourg Diploma fo Advanced Master in Innovative Design give you also 60 European educational credits. European system of education is well recognized around the world as well and you can use those points not only in Europe.
We have to admit that normal process of certification is not appear yet in TRIZ society. It will take time before good “certification advertisers” become well known and before really good professionals will be widely known as well. Unfortunately today there are many people with certificates who has not so good competence and wise versa much more people who has not certificates but able to solve real life problems with TRIZ based tools. The best way for managers to see who is who is to give a real life problem in the course of job interview and see how the candidate treat the problem step by step. Even if the person propose solution right away it does not mean he is a good solver that will deliver good results regularly. The candidate must show his skills in application TRIZ based tools for real life problem situation. That is what most advanced managers in the world do. They trust real results better than papers someone sell as knowledge and skills certificates. Even people from famous Universities with well recognized diplomas are different.
We also have to keep in mind that most of Classical TRIZ body of knowledge is not available in English and even in Russian as well. Any way you will need a good and knowledgeable person. BTW that is how TRIZ started to be recognized in South Korea at LG-Electronics first and then at Samsung. President of LG-Electronics Production Research Center discover TRIZ based software that was created by our team – Invention Machine. The very first TRIZ based software in the world. He realize quickly that behind this software there is something much more powerful. He also understand that body of knowledge available in English has not so good quality. So he pose and solve the problems by inviting knowledgeable people from former USSR. They the same solution was implemented by some companies in Korea and China, in Europe and North America.
Message: 1838
Posted by: Shree Phadnis
Posted on: Monday, 21st June 2010
Dear Hemant,To build on Nikolai comments, Even to master TRIZ at basic user level takes time. Let me tell you that it is not because it is difficult, but because certain skill sets have to be developed at an unconscious level, in the human mind. The analogy that come to my mind is the one that was in the recent movie Karate kid where the Master just made the kid pick up and put his jacket on a peg, umpteen times, so that certain moves get imbibed in your unconscious mind, similarly there are many elements in TRIZ that have to be taught in similar structures, Take for example the Yes- No game that Nikolai uses to train.Once learnt effectively one can teach biology, physics, geography, Language, and any other science using the principles of TRIZ ( PLS NOTE I DONT MEAN 40 PRINCIPLES).
Message: 1841
Posted by: Hemant Apastamb
Posted on: Tuesday, 22nd June 2010
Dear All,
First of all thank you very much for your respose to my post.
I am really greatful & understood the thought process which you all has mentioned. I do agree with all of you that 'TTT' is not a simple process. It will start from changing the mindset itself.
I wish to move ahead in this process step by step. I am ready to invest time in this process. TRIZ is a great tool & i believe our company should get benifit by using this. I wish to make it a Habit to use this tool in our organisation.
Journey starts with first tool. Please guide me how to take first step.
Thanks in advance.
Message: 1846
Posted by: Ellen Domb
Posted on: Thursday, 24th June 2010
I suggest that you start with ideality and the ideal final result. This is not the easiest tool of TRIZ, and it may be the one that causes the most cultural/psychological distress, but that's why I think it is the right starting point if you want to learn “tools.” There are many TRIZ Journal articles about these subjects: two good examples are https://the-trizjournal.com/archives/2006/02/01.pdf
https://the-trizjournal.com/archives/1997/02/a/index.html
and there are many book chapters on the subject.
Message: 1847
Posted by: Jack Standeven
Posted on: Tuesday, 29th June 2010
I used to be the TRIZ champion at the last company I worked for, a semiconductor fab. We were able to create a culture of using TRIZ in our design and problem solving thinking. It was so successful that I was fortunate enough to be the full time TRIZ expert the last two years I was there.
Speaking from experience, any attempts to promote the use of TRIZ within a company has to start from the ground up by demonstrating a positive ROI (Return On Investment) . Most of us including myself see the tremendous value of TRIZ to create new solutions and designs in ways we would not have normally have been aware of. However a company is in existence to make money. To successfully implement TRIZ in a company?s culture you have to show the value of using TRIZ in terms of ROI. Carefully managing and communicating the cost savings in terms of ROI to management from the very first TRIZ project is crucial.
This can be done by calculating the cost and time saved using TRIZ on a project and comparing it to similar projects that used the companies traditional methods. At my company the typical ROI for TRIZ projects was usually cost of engineering hours for developing new designs, savings on equipment designs that was to be put out for bid to equipment vendors, cost savings from changes in production strategy, and using TRIZ derived solutions for eliminating yield loss from the production line. There are many other ways of establishing ROI costs depending on the activity involved. Even ones that seam intangible often have a direct impact to a company?s profit line and can be used to calculate a value for ROI.
In the past we had many attempts to implement various improvement methods. Lean, Knowledge Management, Appreciative Inquiry, and Kepner Tregoe are a few of the various initiatives that were tried. All of them were good but did not sustain the initial effort and energy put into them. We analyzed why this was (using these various methods including TRIZ) and found that most of these initiatives suffered from lack of creating a team that would all agree to use the methods taught for the duration of a project. Those projects that did use some part of the various improvement projects did not establish ROI for the effort it took to learn and implement the improvement initiative.
The typical pattern of most of these improvement efforts was to bring in a consultant to teach a class or two on the method. The class would be made up of individual contributors from different sections. Anyone was free to sign up for a class that looked interesting with the permission of their manager. As a result, each class was always evenly split into three groups. The first group was sincerely interested in the class and skills being taught. They would start thinking of ways to use these skills in their jobs. The second group was there because they were supposed to include a career development class in their annual objectives. They would find the material mildly interesting and of some worth but would go back to a busy job and quickly forget what they learned. The class materials would join other dusty binders from other classes on their book shelf. The third group would be shift workers needing a change in schedule so they could have some time off in the evening or weekend. Many of these shift workers would also find the material highly useful but lack the negotiating skills to implement them successfully in their work centers.
During the class participants would often use real world problems to practice their new skills with each other. This frequently involves having to slow down the class to educate each other on their particular problem and solutions already tried. These individual contributors already had many months of experiences with their problems but others in class did not. So the class would frequently grind to a halt as class participants would ask for clarifications and offer to suggestions to ground that had already been plowed over many times by the person explaining the problem. Multiply this by everyone in the class and it quickly become difficult to get through everyone?s problem. That is why in most of these classes the instructor often has to limit the discussion to no more than a handful of problems. The problems that do get presented at least get the benefit of class discussion and focus using the new techniques being taught. However all the other participants whose problems are not selected suffer from the lack of a class exploration of how to apply the new methods to their own problem. Many of us reading this forum have all experienced this in a class.
The first group, the third of the class sincerely interested in making a go of it, would go back to their work centers and try to use the material in the project teams they were working with. However, they ran into difficulties when they had to sale and then educate the other team members on the advantages of using the new method in the middle of a project that was already well under way. To communicate a new way of doing things and then change midstream the way everyone worked on the project always met with failure.
Realizing this, what we did was to first present and sale our engineering section manager on the value TRIZ could bring to the organization. To test this we proposed TRIZ training for a R&D project team before they started a new project that was due to start in a month, then evaluate the benefit of using TRIZ based on a ROI at the end of their R&D project. She liked the idea and told us we could proceed. Convincing busy R&D engineers to step away from their desk for a week of training was difficult. We did not want to simply force them because the section manager told them so. We wanted them to be more open minded about the class. The selling point was explaining they would not have to attend any other meetings during that week, they could focus just on the their upcoming R&D problem and best of all everyone else in the division would be told these engineers would be out of touch by email for a whole week. There are many TRIZ trainers on the market. We used Zinovy Royzen of TRIZ Consulting. The entire team attended the training.
This approach worked really well. They were not a random group of individual contributors. They were already selected as a group to be on a R&D team so they already got along well together. Since they already were a team focused on the same R&D problem, the class was not slowed down by having participants have to educate each other on what they were working on and why. They were already well aware of the details of the R&D problems and what needed to be done. As a result, class exercises gave the entire team a chance to explore their problem and learn TRIZ at the same time. After the class the team was launched on their R&D project. Because they had all attended the TRIZ training together they were able to collaborate effectively using the TRIZ process on their R&D project.
The team was able to accomplish their design phase in a small fraction of the time management had allotted for the project. The original timeline had been scoped for 6 months. The team was done in two weeks. The project leader apologized for two weeks saying it could have been done sooner but the could only meet four times during those two weeks due to other meetings and other commitments. He was sure they could have been done in three days of uninterrupted work. Proof of concept phase involving experiments was reduced from six months to six weeks. TRIZ was key in identifying the most likely concepts for successful testing rather the usual process of trial and error exploring the boundaries of the problem and solution.
Calculating ROI was fairly strait forward based on management cost of original project versus the time saved. The R&D team consisted of ten engineers. The engineering cost included the company established cost of each engineering hour and the percentage of time each engineer was allotted to work on the project. The additional savings reducing the implementation schedule for time to market was also used as part of the calculation. For a large company in a commodities market, being able to shave months of a product release launch date is worth millions.
The best success was the R&D engineers themselves telling the other engineers in the organization the value of TRIZ. They told their friend over lunches. They included slides of the application of TRIZ in their presentations. Because of their success they were able to market the benefits of TRIZ to the rest of the organization. We soon had a long line of engineers at our desk wanting to know when the next training classes would start. Eventually 80 engineers were trained in TRIZ techniques, over half the engineering organization. 16 of these continued their training to expert level. The best indication of success came when management started integrating trained TRIZ engineers into their planning for launching other R&D teams. In showed us the use of TRIZ was becoming part of our company culture.
Good luck with your attempts. Please keep us all informed how it works out.
Jack Standeven
TRIZ Concepts Consulting
Message: 1848
Posted by: Hemant Apastamb
Posted on: Wednesday, 30th June 2010
Dear Jack,
Thank you so much for clearing my thoughts by giving entire process of “How to deploy TRIZ?” in the organization.
I am sure this guidance will help me & my organization in a long way.
I will try to follow entire process in due course of time.
Once again thanks for your crystal clear guidance.
Regards.
Message: 1849
Posted by: Pentti Soderlin
Posted on: Thursday, 1st July 2010
Dear all,
Ellen Domb has adviced to start with IFR and refers to an article by Vladimir Petrov and her own article. To my ashtonishment the said articles are not at all describing IFR but the concept of Value as defined by L.D. Miles in Techniques of Value Analysis/Value Engineering. What is the difference between Value and Ideality? See my article Thoughts of Value and Ideality in https://the-trizjournal.com/archives/2003/05/f/06.pdf .
Petrov and Domb are referring to some kind of optimal product rather than an ideal one or perhaps their intention was to describe the concept of product differentiation?